Ron Paul: Blame America First or Blame Israel Altogether

 

There really is little to no difference between Ron Paul’s ideas on foreign policy and hatred of America’s military strength, and Barrack Hussein Obama’s – except for the fact that Ron Paul may be far more of a clueless lunatic than his Marxist counterpart.  Especially in understanding radical Islam or of our allies who stand as the only bulwark against them in the Islamic nest of the Middle East.

Like the mainstream media who contorts or covers up facts in logic defying twists to support Obama, Ron Paul’s Mob Zombie True Believers, do the same thing for their political savior.  They’ll even cover for Ron Paul’s blatant anti-Israel stance, and jump through hoops of absurdity and parsings to even declare that Ron Paul is a ‘Zionist” in response to the fact their messiah was not invited to appear at the Republican Jewish Coalition forum.

Daniel Greenfield notes the ridiculous attempt by The Atlantic to portray Ron Paul a friend of Israel, when his statements and actions illustrate him to be absolutely no different than Obama’s hostility towards our only ally in the Middle East.

More to the point, I wanted to link to this piece, so we can be reminded of Ron Paul’s absurd positions and statements regarding Israel, who he blames for the world’s woes only second to his blaming America first for radical Jihadists and the chaos now enveloping the globe.

Ron Paul: Blame Israel First

Do you know who the latest Zionist on the block is? It’s the man who called Israel, “an aggressive, national socialist state” and suggested that the original World Trade Center bombing may have really been carried out by Israel.

…So how is he a Zionist? Ask Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic. According to him,Ron Paul is, “in one sense, a true Zionist, a believer in two core values of the Jewish liberation movement: Jewish independence and Jewish self-reliance.”

But not Israel itself.  That’s clever double speak to cover for a man who repeatedly suggests that Israel is a bane to the United States.  But it’s election time and Ron Paul, a career politician , vying for the Presidency for the third time under different parties, has to pander for votes beyond the unemployed college anarchists and Alex Jones/Lew Rockwell cultists who join with the Occupy crowds to tear down everything they hate about America.

The Mob Zombies of course insist their vaunted savior is simply against foreign aid, kind of the same way they insist he is against earmarks, but appropriates them on a regular basis.  But as Greenfield points out – it’s not foreign aid to Israel that Ron Paul has issues with:

Ron Paul isn’t simply against foreign aid; he believes that the Israeli lobby controls Washington and involves American in foreign wars… and that this was among the causes of September 11. Paul has described the original World Trade Center bombing as a “retaliation” and during the Republican debates in 2007 and 2011 blamed American foreign policy for Al-Qaeda’s attacks.

… Ron Paul has insisted that we should have stayed out of WWII and let Nazi Germany and the USSR fight it out, and that by entering the war Churchill only prolonged it. Clearly this was another expression of Ron Paul’s Zionism and his desire to promote “Jewish independence and Jewish self-reliance.”

Ron Paul supporters will clamor that the above material comes from the Ron Paul Survival Report, which according to the Paul campaign was supposedly written for years by some mysterious stranger pretending to be Ron Paul. This unknown stranger discussed his time in Congress, his medical career and his wife Carol all in the first person.

Of course the mob zombies in the cult of Paul buy that ridiculous argument as if a fiery finger wrote them on stone.  That the media will attempt to regurgitate this is their effort to continue to fraction the Conservative base and throw the general election back to Obama.  A house divided cannot stand, and Ron Paul’s purpose seems to be to continue to divide the Conservative House, so that the Marxists continue in power.

Perhaps my greatest visceral dislike of Ron Paul, is that he gives aid and comfort to our enemies, while denouncing America and our allies in their presence – almost as readily as Obama does on foreign speaking engagements.

In an interview with Iranian television, Ron Paul complained that the president had not said anything to Israel about its horrible massacre, compared Gaza to a concentration camp, and made it rather clear that he sympathized with the terrorists. It wasn’t some unknown mysterious stranger signing Paul’s name to hateful screeds. It was the man himself doing an interview with the agents of a murderous regime responsible for the murders of numerous Americans.

What about the following statement in the House of Representatives?

“Bin Laden’s claims are straightforward. The U.S. defiles Islam with military bases on holy land in Saudi Arabia, its initiation of war against Iraq, with 12 years of persistent bombing, and its dollars and weapons being used against the Palestinians as the Palestinian territory shrinks and Israel’s occupation expands. There will be no peace in the world for the next 50 years or longer if we refuse to believe why those who are attacking us do it.”

If this was 1942 – Ron Paul’s absurd and infuriating appeasement comments would sound something like this:

“Tojo’s claims are straightforward.  The U.S. defies Japan with military bases on islands in the Pacific, it’s initiation of aggression against Japan by  stationing fighter squadrons on mainland China, and it’s dollars and weapons being used against Japan’s expansion of it’s territories.  There will be no peace in the world for the next 50 years or longer if we refuse to believe why Japan attacked us on December 7, 1941.”

Ron Paul isn’t calling for impartiality or agitating for non-interventionism because he supports Jewish self-reliance, but because he believes that Israel is the source of our problems. He has made it clear over and over again that he blames Israel’s own war on terrorists for terrorism, just as he blames America’s war on terror for terrorism against America.

Paul’s hatred for the United States government has led him to make a common intellectual cause with Islamic terrorists. As far back as his Survival Report days, Paul had gotten in the habit of responding to Islamic violence with conspiracy theories. When Tehran was calling for Rushdie’s head on a plate, Paul wondered if “Some of the people hyping the Rushdie affair have other motives? For example to make Moslems look bad for geopolitical reasons?” (Ron Paul Survival Report – April 1989)

In January 2002, Paul wrote, “How can we forever fail to address the provocative nature of U.S. taxpayer money being used to suppress and kill Palestinians and ignore the affront to the Islamic people that our military presence on their holy land of Saudi Arabia causes.” In that same article he described the terrorists as “those who so passionately hate us that suicide becomes a just and noble cause in their effort to kill and terrorize us”.

In his book, “A Foreign Policy of Freedom,” Ron Paul insisted that, “all recent presidents have reiterated our obligation to bleed for Israel.” American soldiers have never bled for Israel, but language of this sort plays well with Paul’s base, and continues feeding the myth that America’s confrontation with Islamic terror is due to Israel, rather than Islam.

Occasionally Paul switches gears and points out that a cutoff in foreign aid would be good for Israel. That may well be the case. I believe that and so do quite a few people who support Israel. But this issue stands entirely apart from Paul’s larger “Blame Israel” worldview.

Ron Paul is not simply anti-foreign aid, he is anti-Israel. That is the country he has singled out for blame over and over again. And while he has every right to his opinion, conservative Jewish groups have a right not to give him a forum.

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19 Comments

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19 responses to “Ron Paul: Blame America First or Blame Israel Altogether

  1. invar

    So do you propose that we continue our presence in the middle east?

    Yes.

    Continue blowing our federal budget? Continue printing money?

    As if being totally disengaged from the world is going to STOP that horrid set of abuses. The current welfare state is what blows the budget BY TRILLIONS (65 TRILLION in unfunded mandates and liabilities alone), and the Ruling Class prints debt in order that they can continue to stay in power permanently on the backs of the dependent classes this welfare keeps enslaved.

    You might want to stop sniffing the glue, put down your bong and step away from the weed now and comprehend the very real fact we live in a dangerous world.

    We were in the middle east 100 years before “radical Islam” or 9/11.

    Oh really dottard? You think our presence is what instigated it? Maybe Jefferson should have appeased and apologized for affronting the Barbary Muhammedan Empire? Perhaps the Ottoman Empire was really as benign as clueless fools like you say it was? Ever actually READ the Quran instead of regurgitating your false messiah’s talking points?

    Ron Paul opposes policing other nations, war, and intervention with violence. Instead we should utilize diplomacy.

    Case-in-point why Ron Paul needs to be in a straightjacket and far away from any position of power or authority.

  2. T3

    My brother… I am as far to the right as you seem to be. Raw emotion has its place but it is not here and not now. Cooler heads must prevail. Mainstream republican candidates will flush this country into the same cesspool that obama will. They are no different and potentially even more dangerous to liberty than obama itself, as sleepy conservatives will be coaxed back into the stupor they have been in for decades.

    I will be voting the American Constitution in 2012 and that means Ron Paul. While far from isolationist, the fact remains, there is no more money to pay for anything near what current US foreign policy entails. It is the welfare state and US fiscal policy toward governments around the globe which have brought us here. The Federal Reserve prints trillions, distributes the money at will to whom it will and saddles the American taxpayer with the resultant debt and valueless dollar.

    Yes, I want my troops home. One American life is not worth a million musloid lives in my not so humble opinion and to even attempt to “build nations” that would afford these people an ounce of “western” comfort is absurd on its face. They deserve what they build and the “blessings” their “god” bestows upon them.

    As to Israel… they are a vastly more powerful nation that any other musloid tribal conglomerate in the geographic area. There is only One God and He chose the nation of Israel Personally. If He is for them, who can stand against them? They do not require our money (there is no more anyway) as they can rightly stand on their own. Not feeding Israel directly is NOT, not standing with them in a time of desperate need. It is allowing them to exist unencumbered by the dictates of what accepting our foreign aid entails.

    You and I are on the same side. I wish you His Peace. I ask you to think very carefully about what a vote against Ron Paul actually means. The world is ready to crack and it will absolutely be a violent occasion. We have this last opportunity to attempt a softer landing onto the firm foundation of the constitution with Ron Paul in office. Anyone else and America ceases to exist. Of course this is all contingent on actually having the honest opportunity to vote in 2012…

  3. T3

    Also, as much as I respect and enjoy reading the Sultan Knish (he is right about islam) not inviting RP to the Jewish debate was foolish at best and sinister at worst. What better event to firmly pin down RP’s true stance on Israel? If the fears were justified, Greenfield (and you) walk away vindicated… if not, we all learn something we did not heretofore realize. RP is not “against” Israel or America. To say he offers aid and comfort to the enemies of America is horribly reckless.

    I adore what America is supposed to be. I despise what America has become and I trust nothing that America’s government tells me. America’s government (not her people) has become as evil as any on Earth. We are in line with the musloid’s for God’s sake. The globalists use the musloid’s as there enforcers and havoc creators in order that “UN led one world global governance” is advanced. It simply must be stopped in its tracks and right now RP is the only candidate planning to do anything about it.

  4. invar

    Attention the rabid mob zombies of Ron Paul – if you want to have even the remotest chance of being taken seriously, or to be welcome at the table of Conservatism to debate issues, T3 here is an example you should look to emulate.

    My brother… I am as far to the right as you seem to be. Raw emotion has its place but it is not here and not now. Cooler heads must prevail.

    ‘Cooler heads?’ Romney is spewing that exact same garbage right now. I think he referred to Conservatives as “zany”, having no place in government. And please my brother, do not mistake solid passion and resolve for raw emotion.

    Mainstream republican candidates will flush this country into the same cesspool that obama will.

    That we will agree on. The Ruling Class is the Ruling Class, albeit one may be quicker than the other.

    They are no different and potentially even more dangerous to liberty than obama itself

    There we will disagree. Unless the GOP Ruling Class Candidates are overt Marxists as Obama is – completely destroying the country is not exactly their agenda – ruling it yes, but not destroying it completely in order to remake it into the image of Marx. They are dangerous to the extent that many of them disguise themselves as Conservatives, vote as Leftists and empower the Ruling Class and come campaign time, they tear us apart from within. I submit Ron Paul is a similar creature in that department. He is a Libertarian, not a Conservative.

    I will be voting the American Constitution in 2012 and that means Ron Paul.

    I am glad you will exercise your right and conscience, as I will also. That means I will NOT be voting for that person. I do not, nor ever will assume that the ONLY savior to restoring our heritage and Constitution is by voting for Ron Paul. To me, that is idolatry, and no different a mindset than what the Obama drones possess.

    While far from isolationist, the fact remains, there is no more money to pay for anything near what current US foreign policy entails.

    While true, in the context we are broke (and will end up as the Soviets, having to abandon our place in the world) – the consequences of it, whether by inability due debt, or refusal due a pacifist policy – will cost us far more dearly than any of us can comprehend right now.

    It is the welfare state and US fiscal policy toward governments around the globe which have brought us here.

    No. Wrong. Those are contributing factors to be sure. But they are not the reason or impetus in themselves. The loss of Christian morals from the church on up, has relegated to Americans surrendering responsibility to the government to do all things for them, thus making government replace God. That led to the cultural rot that led to criminals and tyrants enslaving us while empowering themselves over us. If you are honest – the welfare state since LBJ – has indebted us to the tune of over 60 TRILLION in welfare obligations. Compare that to our defense spending and wars fought against an entity we ignored for decades.

    The Federal Reserve prints trillions, distributes the money at will to whom it will and saddles the American taxpayer with the resultant debt and valueless dollar.

    That they do.

    Yes, I want my troops home. One American life is not worth a million musloid lives in my not so humble opinion and to even attempt to “build nations” that would afford these people an ounce of “western” comfort is absurd on its face. They deserve what they build and the “blessings” their “god” bestows upon them.

    I do not disagree with that notion on it’s face. Liberty as we know it is IMPOSSIBLE to have outside of a Christian/biblical construct. To go to the Mid-East to recreate what we did after WWII to Japan is not possible if our values were not mandated and imposed on the people. Being PC does not allow us that option whatsover, so nation building an ally based on the Koran was an exercize in stupidity and foolhardiness. However, strategically – being in Iraq offered us a base in which to strike at the heart of Jihadist Islam on earth. A’stan should have simply been leveled into the dust until Bin Laden was dead or surrendered to us. We will rue the day we left that region as it is now.

    As to Israel… they are a vastly more powerful nation that any other musloid tribal conglomerate in the geographic area. There is only One God and He chose the nation of Israel Personally. If He is for them, who can stand against them? They do not require our money (there is no more anyway) as they can rightly stand on their own.
    Not feeding Israel directly is NOT, not standing with them in a time of desperate need. It is allowing them to exist unencumbered by the dictates of what accepting our foreign aid entails.

    I do not disagree with this general statement. But they are allies of ours, and allies share tech and capability against common enemies. Given that – U.S. Policy has been to RESTRICT or punish Israel for defending itself. There is no wisdom in the ruling class, only tyranny – and there is little left among this people the further we get from God.

    You and I are on the same side. I wish you His Peace.

    Likewise.

    I ask you to think very carefully about what a vote against Ron Paul actually means. The world is ready to crack and it will absolutely be a violent occasion. We have this last opportunity to attempt a softer landing onto the firm foundation of the constitution with Ron Paul in office. Anyone else and America ceases to exist. Of course this is all contingent on actually having the honest opportunity to vote in 2012…

    Nothing can stop the conflagration now lit on the world. Nothing.

    Nothing can stop the tyranny America has grown comfortable with, because few will risk what our Founders did and we are no longer the same people with a common Biblical foundation that understood where liberty came from. Ron Paul cannot save us, unless you would make him a dictator – in which case – your cause is not as Constitutional as you think.

    Saving the republic is not contingent on getting a man elected to high office. We began from the ground-up, not the top on down. And to save ourselves will be contingent on recapturing our culture and morality from the ground and work it’s way up.

  5. T3

    Good morning invar. I tried thrice to post a follow-up to your follow up. It seems the website will not recognize a continued conversation. This is so very important a topic. The foundation of our republic may stand upon it. Would you kindly email me at ted at high end audio dot com that I may send you the reply, that you might post it?

    Many thanks!

  6. invar

    I do not understand the problem. If you type within the wordpress reply window, there should be no problem posting your reply. If you have formatted your reply in another program or are attempting to use HTML – that may be a problem when wordpress tries to post it. Try reposting without any tags.

  7. T3

    Just tried once again to post half the content, as I thought perhaps I was being to wordy for wordpress… Fail. Didn’t think it was that long but I’ll try thirds if you think that may have something to do with it.

    I wouldn’t know what a tag was if I tripped over it :) I thought I has lost my reply after hitting submit, but the back button brought it around again so I emailed it to myself. Perhaps wordpress is not a Ron Paul fan either?

  8. invar

    No. It has to be something in the text giving WordPress fits. I’m assuming it is some kind of HTML tags or something within the text, or Big Brother is playing with you already. Maybe you are a ‘test case’ to see if they can restrict your opinions from being published? I’ll send you an e-mail to submit your reply.

  9. T3

    I have my tinfoil hat on… ;)

    Thank you!

    “And please my brother, do not mistake solid passion and resolve for raw emotion.”

    My eyes are open.

    “Unless the GOP Ruling Class Candidates are overt Marxists as Obama is – completely destroying the country is not exactly their agenda – ruling it yes, but not destroying it completely in order to remake it into the image of Marx.”

    I contend that they are indeed covert marxists and that they work NOT for “We The People” but for the globalist marxist satanic cabal headed by the likes of george soros, et. al. I pray I am wrong but every fiber of my being screams otherwise.

    “I submit Ron Paul is a similar creature in that department. He is a Libertarian, not a Conservative.”

    I pray you are wrong. Being a member of the republican party all my adult life I have supported the likes of GB 1 and 2. I see where it has taken the country I love and it sickens me to my core. I am ready to give a Libertarian the opportunity to lead this nation as best he can. Indeed, what have we left to lose at this point?

    “I am glad you will exercise your right and conscience, as I will also. That means I will NOT be voting for that person. I do not, nor ever will assume that the ONLY savior to restoring our heritage and Constitution is by voting for Ron Paul. To me, that is idolatry, and no different a mindset than what the Obama drones possess.”

    Amen. Please believe me, I am under no false pretense that RP is some savior. I stand only upon the mans voting record and he has continuously voted the American Constitution his entire career. Let the constitution party run Chuck Baldwin (he’s currently running for Lt. Gov. in Montana) and I will put an immediate halt to my life save for seeing him elected. I have no “love” for RP but I have respect and therefore, seeing my other choices, must vote for the man actually running for the position. Idolatry is surely evil.

    “While true, in the context we are broke (and will end up as the Soviets, having to abandon our place in the world) – the consequences of it, whether by inability due debt, or refusal due a pacifist policy – will cost us far more dearly than any of us can comprehend right now.”

    Do we know, for a fact, that RP is a “pacifist”? I do not (though I may be wrong) nor do I “believe” he is however. Example… should America be hit again as on 9/11, I do not believe RP would roll over. Attack is attack and must be responded to with staggeringly lethal force. This is what our military is constructed for. Our military destroys… it is not to construct new nations from the ashes of old. Unlike the Bush’s, Clinton’s or obama’s of the world, I do believe an RP White House would seek the will of the people through the congress as to how to respond to such an attack. Pull the troops as RP suggests… if we are hit again, turn the desert city to glass.

    It is the welfare state and US fiscal policy toward governments around the globe which have brought us here.

    No. Wrong. Those are contributing factors to be sure. But they are not the reason or impetus in themselves. The loss of Christian morals from the church on up, has relegated to Americans surrendering responsibility to the government to do all things for them, thus making government replace God. That led to the cultural rot that led to criminals and tyrants enslaving us while empowering themselves over us. If you are honest – the welfare state since LBJ – has indebted us to the tune of over 60 TRILLION in welfare obligations. Compare that to our defense spending and wars fought against an entity we ignored for decades.”

    You are 100% accurate here my brother in Christ. Welcome to Babylon… the place where personal responsibility no longer exists. The place where “political correctness” otherwise known as communist subversion or satanic delusion has prevented the average “targeted westerner” from being able to comprehend bullshit even when standing in it.

    “Liberty as we know it is IMPOSSIBLE to have outside of a Christian/biblical construct. To go to the Mid-East to recreate what we did after WWII to Japan is not possible if our values were not mandated and imposed on the people.”

    Indeed, it is not possible to legislate morality. See, prohibition. Christ is THE answer but He is a Gentleman :)

    “Being PC does not allow us that option whatsover, so nation building an ally based on the Koran was an exercize in stupidity and foolhardiness.”

    Of course it was, but we were surely zealous in our attempt, no? Why? Because the musloid’s are useful idiots as are there western leftist counterparts. They are however, uniquely violent and especially useful in their creation of chaos. Chaos must be created as the Fabian socialist satanic heart desires, for it is through chaos and destruction that the “new world order” will be brought to fruition.

    All of what we are witnessing around the globe is an intentionally devised and meticulously planned scheme to bring a few global elite into absolute power. It is abject greed and lust for money and power which drives them. Ron Paul has stated clearly that he will only accept some $39,000 a year salary as POTUS. Is that a gratuity, yes, but the sentiment is real. The man does not seem to have that burning desire for power or money in him. The tenets of Romney’s own mormon religion state that he too can become like God. Sweet Jesus…! Did satan not try that long ago? Might RP become corrupted once there, God only knows. Out of anyone running he actually seems to have a servants heart and the will (as proven by his voting record) to work strictly within the framework of the constitution – the rule of American law.

    “However, strategically – being in Iraq offered us a base in which to strike at the heart of Jihadist Islam on earth. A’stan should have simply been leveled into the dust until Bin Laden was dead or surrendered to us. We will rue the day we left that region as it is now.”

    You are right about A’stan. Must we however, with all our advanced weaponry, actually have troops on the ground to strike at islam’s heart? I contend it is because we do not want to strike at its heart that we have troops there. We want to pour money into the situation and enrich those truly in control… the military industrial complex (and all this entails). Our troops on the ground prevent “real” attack.

    “But they are allies of ours, and allies share tech and capability against common enemies. Given that – U.S. Policy has been to RESTRICT or punish Israel for defending itself. There is no wisdom in the ruling class, only tyranny – and there is little left among this people the further we get from God.”

    Israel is our closest ally no matter what our current usurper in command states. We have a connection which goes past statesmanship. Our peoples are connected. God knows this. We have however, neglected Israel as a matter of foreign policy. obama is a closet musloid. I have to believe that an RP white House would be FAR more friendly to Israel than where we are now. RP is NOT a member of the ruling class. I do not see or feel tyranny in the man. I have to trust that. I believe he can be trusted (God please help me here).

    “Nothing can stop the conflagration now lit on the world. Nothing.

    Nothing can stop the tyranny America has grown comfortable with, because few will risk what our Founders did and we are no longer the same people with a common Biblical foundation that understood where liberty came from. Ron Paul cannot save us, unless you would make him a dictator – in which case – your cause is not as Constitutional as you think.

    Saving the republic is not contingent on getting a man elected to high office. We began from the ground-up, not the top on down. And to save ourselves will be contingent on recapturing our culture and morality from the ground and work it’s way up.”

    I fear you are right. World events are proceeding according to Bible prophesy. I am sure there are very few who are willing to risk what the Founders risked but we are out there nonetheless. God always raises up a remnant and that would be you and I and whoever would join us. Ron Paul can not save us indeed, but he is one heck of an ace in the hole at the top of the chain of command in America. Can he honestly hurt us more than obama or the pseudo republican? We can vote whom we know will lead us to the same eventuality as the obama, Romney/Perry/Gingrich/Republican or we can take the small chance that a man given to obey the constitution and his God (our God, The God… RP is a pro-life Christian man, a former flight surgeon in the US Air Force, an OB-GYN physician who held a private practice) might lead those we leave behind (post Rapture or post CW2) with a slightly better chance at survival in this brave new world. We need to have some faith in Who we believe, and NOT vote for the “known” lesser of two evils. The constitutional libertarian deserves his shot. He has been trying to get our attention for 30 years. Examine his record and vote accordingly!

    God’s Peace to you and yours!

  10. invar

    I am ready to give a Libertarian the opportunity to lead this nation as best he can. Indeed, what have we left to lose at this point?

    What is left.

    Do we know, for a fact, that RP is a “pacifist”?

    Judge for yourself: this is from the Daily Paul: Why We Must Be Pacifist Libertarians – “Violence in order to achieve political goals, even in self-defense, does not accomplish any political goal whatsoever”.

    “We must not respond to political action with violence because it will downgrade the ideals of our cause”.

    should America be hit again as on 9/11, I do not believe RP would roll over.

    No, he would first blame us for provoking it, and THEN he would roll over. He’s already said so.

    Attack is attack and must be responded to with staggeringly lethal force.

    Might want to reread what the DailyPaul has to say about that again: “Violence in order to achieve political goals, even in self-defense, does not accomplish any political goal whatsoever”

    Chaos must be created as the Fabian socialist satanic heart desires, for it is through chaos and destruction that the “new world order” will be brought to fruition.

    That’s Obama’s agenda and those who put him over us.

    All of what we are witnessing around the globe is an intentionally devised and meticulously planned scheme to bring a few global elite into absolute power. It is abject greed and lust for money and power which drives them.

    Power yes. Money is just the means to achieve it. But even then, fiat money is not going to have any worth – and while the Fabian Socialist think the world is their oyster, the Frankenstein they are helping with Radical Islam is going to turn on them – and what comes will be unlike what they currently think they are going to achieve.

    Might RP become corrupted once there, God only knows.

    He’s been in congress for decades and this is his third run for the Presidency on two different party tickets. Anyone who wants the top spot that badly, I am automatically against. That’s not a servant’s heart, that’s a ‘I want to rule’ heart.

    You are right about A’stan. Must we however, with all our advanced weaponry, actually have troops on the ground to strike at islam’s heart?

    You cannot hold or control territory without boots on the ground. You can wipe it out of existence and salt the earth, but if you are going to try and win ‘hearts and minds’ to either nation-build or use the land as a military base, then doing so is not much of an option.

    I contend it is because we do not want to strike at its heart that we have troops there.

    We no longer have the belief in ourselves or a sense of moral imperative as our grandparents did to do what is necessary to stop Jihadist Islam. We are too PC wussified for that.

    We want to pour money into the situation and enrich those truly in control… the military industrial complex (and all this entails). Our troops on the ground prevent “real” attack.

    I’m not into that kind of tinfoil.

    I have to believe that an RP white House would be FAR more friendly to Israel than where we are now.

    I don’t. Ron Paul has been consistently anti-Israel. In 2009 he sided with the Palestinians and charged Israel with “pre-emptive war” after the Israeli army attacked Gaza to stop thousands of rockets from being fired into Israel at civilian targets. Shortly after, Ron Paul, on state-run Iranian TV charged Israel with running a “concentration camp” against Palestinians and justified Palestinians using homicide bombers to kill civilians.

    Nope. I don’t see Ron Paul being any friendlier to Israel than Obama is currently.

    RP is NOT a member of the ruling class.

    He’s been in Congress for decades. His use of earmarks are legendary.

    Can he honestly hurt us more than obama or the pseudo republican?

    Yes.

    In addition, to enact ANYTHING in his platform would require rule by his diktat, or he becomes the most irrelevant Executive in history.

    We need to have some faith in Who we believe, and NOT vote for the “known” lesser of two evils.

    My faith is in God. Not in men to fix something by voting yet another politician to the top spot.

  11. T3

    Excuse me for taking so many days to reply. I believe our differences of opinion are in reality very minor. I believe you are misunderstanding RP’s words, for example:

    “Violence in order to achieve political goals, even in self-defense, does not accomplish any political goal whatsoever”.

    How is this wrong? Violence achieves military goals, not political. Political goals are by nature “political”… meaning there is dialog between nations, and national business is conducted from that dialog. He is not saying that violence is never appropriate, nor is he saying that a nation should not defend itself from violent attack.

    “No, he would first blame us for provoking it, and THEN he would roll over. He’s already said so.”

    I listened to the clip you linked up here. While I whole heartedly believe in American Exceptionalism, that America has the finest national charter ever created by man, in reality America has fallen far from the ideals she was founded upon. We are not remotely the same nation we were even 50 years ago.

    A few of us have had the privilege of being seriously convicted personally by the Holy Spirit. We have seen, felt and understand the result of our own personal sin nature and that of sin in nature. We understand what price Christ paid and the blessings bought on our behalf. While I am not sure if it is a like-blessing or a curse, over the past few years I am being made aware of the sin nature of our nation and it is incomprehensible in its magnitude. To whom much is given, much is expected. God have mercy on us all. We must move in a direction away from the R’s and D’s as these established powers that be are corrupt far, far beyond repair. My faith too is in God, yet we are given one last opportunity to do something which might (might) begin to correct the course we have been traveling. It is a vote for Ron Paul.

    We are on the same side my brother. Peace…

  12. invar

    Excuse me for taking so many days to reply. I believe our differences of opinion are in reality very minor.

    Only if you consider our self defense and national security to be ‘minor’. I don’t. I’ve been to the other side of the world – and let me tell you – it does not think like or share our values whatsoever. Given the opportunity – most of the world would wipe us out of existence and plunder our carcass. Something rabid pacifist Libertarians do not comprehend and REFUSE to understand. So we have no ground in which to have a discussion on the issue of self defense, our military and national security because the moral issue between Conservatives and Ron Paul is a gulf that cannot be bridged. Not if we Conservatives decide national suicide and genocide is admirable.

    I believe you are misunderstanding RP’s words, for example:

    “Violence in order to achieve political goals, even in self-defense, does not accomplish any political goal whatsoever”.

    How is this wrong? Violence achieves military goals, not political.

    You are making my point for me. It is either gross naiveté or willful ignorance to assume military action in any capacity DOES NOT achieve political goals. It does, and in spades. This is the reason a pacifist and anti-military Isolationist like Ron Paul is unfit for high office.

    Every single military act – of which violence is the purpose a military – is ALWAYS for the purpose of achieving a political goal of some kind. Military force IS a tool of political ends, whether defending and preserving from an attack or whether by conquering – the use of military force is the means to political ends.

    Every single war, every single military engagement in human history had a political objective behind it’s use.

    Political goals are by nature “political”… meaning there is dialog between nations, and national business is conducted from that dialog.

    No. ‘Diplomacy” can be achieved by dialog to establish a political aim or goal between cooperating peoples and nations. Political goals are also achieved by use of force, we have 6,000 years of recorded human history to document and verify that fact.

    He is not saying that violence is never appropriate, nor is he saying that a nation should not defend itself from violent attack.

    I’ve read enough of his statements and his denouncement of this nation on foreign soil for use by our enemies. He expressly said that the US was responsible for all the violence being done in the world, and that any attack on the USA was the result of our instigation and agitation. Ron Paul would be WORSE than Obama in matters of our national defense given his statements recently and in the past.

    We are not remotely the same nation we were even 50 years ago.

    No we are not. But lambasting us as some kind of evil and stating the absolutely unforgivable things he has said of late that our enemies are broadcasting to their followers as proof they have a right to wage Jihad on us by our own admission – is beyond unforgivable and makes him unfit for office.

    A few of us have had the privilege of being seriously convicted personally by the Holy Spirit. We have seen, felt and understand the result of our own personal sin nature and that of sin in nature. We understand what price Christ paid and the blessings bought on our behalf. While I am not sure if it is a like-blessing or a curse, over the past few years I am being made aware of the sin nature of our nation and it is incomprehensible in its magnitude.

    Excellent. Now go and get this nations churches to repent and get this people to do a II Chronicles 7:14, and we need to STOP looking for some miracle ‘deliverer’ in a politician to save us. This people want a king. The Marxist Left have theirs in Obama, and the Libertarians want Ron Paul to be theirs. I already have a King. And there is none but Jesus.

    My faith too is in God, yet we are given one last opportunity to do something which might (might) begin to correct the course we have been traveling. It is a vote for Ron Paul.

    Your understanding of scripture and course of action are not in alignment my friend. To even BEGIN to correct the course we are traveling, requires a national repentance, NOT electing some bozo to the top spot. This nation was not begun from the top on down, it was forged from the bottom, on up. When the people are righteous and moral, they will choose a leader that better reflects the values of the nation. until then, it’s just one bunch trying to get their king elected over the other.

    We are on the same side my brother. Peace…

    I hope so. But sometimes, I do wonder given the things that some who claim to be on my side start advocating.

    While I am no fan of the Weekly Standard’s RINO-istic tendencies, what they do note about Ron Paul, especially in his affiliations and views regarding our security – this article does nail it well. And it explains in detail why I will NEVER cast a vote for him.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/company-ron-paul-keeps_613474.html?nopager=1

  13. T3

    I am not looking to RP as a miracle deliverer as I already have one. I know my Lord and He knows me. I see a vote for RP as a vote which moves us (the American people) more toward liberty as a nation. Others may see RP as the perfect candidate as the libtards saw obama but please rest assured that I have no such delusion.

    “lambasting us as some kind of evil”

    Who is RP speaking about when speaking of “us”? He is not speaking about the “US” as in We The People of the United States… he is speaking about the literal evil which has been done in our name by a government which no longer recognizes the rule of law in OUR land and has not for a long time. There is a huge distinction which needs to be made here. The America which I know and love is not the America which exists in the minds of those who believe they rule us. American government is not America. You and I are America. RP is not for the American government (indeed he is decidedly against it) he is for you and I.

    Do you cast a vote at all?

  14. invar

    I see a vote for RP as a vote which moves us (the American people) more toward liberty as a nation.

    That is a misguided notion. NO ONE elected to high office can move us towards liberty unless they did so acting as a dictator. That is fact. And Ron Paul has absolutely NO VIABLE or workable plan to wean this nation from the dependence on giant government it has become.

    Secondly – electing someone to office is not how liberty was to be maintained. Do you read the Founders? “As goeth the church, so goeth the culture and wherein our liberty is maintained”.

    Thirdly – and most importantly, liberty lost is NEVER regained. This is a lesson that history teaches time and again, and our Founders were wise enough to understand this truth. Here is what John Adams wrote:

    But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it…

    There is not exception to this historical fact. Small tokens of letting the people enslaved think they have regained a liberty – but never again do they have the liberty they started with. That’s fact that few to none are willing to consider.

    Others may see RP as the perfect candidate as the libtards saw obama but please rest assured that I have no such delusion.

    I am glad to hear that of you. I am sorry to say that is not the mindset of a huge swath of his supporters who do in fact, and indeed see RP as a savior of sorts.

    “lambasting us as some kind of evil”

    Who is RP speaking about when speaking of “us”? He is not speaking about the “US” as in We The People of the United States… he is speaking about the literal evil which has been done in our name by a government which no longer recognizes the rule of law in OUR land and has not for a long time.

    Our enemies make no such distinction when Ron Paul is used and quoted. That RP has no qualms about bashing our nation’s policies in the presence of our enemies is yet another indicator that he is not fit for office.

    But that aside – RP’s castigation of “Evil” is strictly limited to his Libertarian worldview, where the Fed, the CIA, the military and government in general is an evil, and he sticks to lambasting those pet causes of Libertarianism. Ron Paul sees no evil in lawbreaking illegal aliens; he sees no evil in drug use; he sees no evil in radical Islam – and in fact suggested there would BE no radical Islam if it were not for the USA’s policies (which is beyond historical and observational ignorance). He sees no evil in Iran and it’s ambitions for nuclear weapons to use on the infidel nations in order to jump-start the apocalypse; and he is not as animated against the evil of the Welfare state and the socialism we are become as he is on his other ‘pet’ issues.

    I’m all for limited government in the cause of ordered liberty as intended by the Founders. But I also recognize where we have arrived in history and wisdom is required in promoting that ideal with where we are currently at as a nation. Ron Paul has no such wisdom. I hear it now every time he speaks, and I would not vote for him if it were only between he and Obama. I would write in candidate.

    The America which I know and love is not the America which exists in the minds of those who believe they rule us. American government is not America. You and I are America.

    And this America is comfortable with this tyranny it suffers willingly. More than half this population is for this Marxism you see rising. Lots of factors at play that makes this the reality; our education from the last 40 years, TV and Hollywood, the media etc. None of this Marxism gets reversed until those factors are dealt with, and NO CANDIDATE, not even Ron Paul has a workable solution to dealing with those cancers. None. Ron Paul is just like Ross Perot – all he is really capable of is citing the problems and telling everyone listening to him about what is wrong. He has NO viable solutions to ANYTHING in his platform. No realistic steps to get up from here we are to where he thinks we should be. None.

    RP is not for the American government (indeed he is decidedly against it) he is for you and I.

    I beg to differ. No one wanting the office of the Presidency as badly as he does (3 times running now under different parties) is anyone that is of a servant mindset. He wants that power too badly – and that’s a red flag to me. Ron Paul is simply good at inciting the ‘Tear it all down” anarchist mentality of both the Marxist Left and the Libertarians. I’m a Conservative, and Ron Paul is as far from me as Obama is to the other spectrum.

    Do you cast a vote at all?

    Every election.

  15. T3

    I appreciate this discussion as an opportunity to learn and I thank you for taking the time to reply!

    “I’m all for limited government in the cause of ordered liberty as intended by the Founders. But I also recognize where we have arrived in history and wisdom is required in promoting that ideal with where we are currently at as a nation.”

    “And this America is comfortable with this tyranny it suffers willingly. More than half this population is for this Marxism you see rising.”

    We recognize the same. It is disgraceful. Aside from our fervent prayer, which I will take as given, what are your short and long term political suggestions? Whom do you support in 2012 aside from RP as he was the target of your article? I will certainly examine any reasonable suggestions. The currently available pool, to these eyes, strongly suggests RP as the only candidate moving any where near limiting the scope of fedzilla, which might give the cause of liberty a fighting chance at survival if not, at least some, success.

    “NO CANDIDATE, not even Ron Paul has a workable solution to dealing with those cancers. None.”

    Without going into his entire platform which can be found on his website… You mention (for example) the system of public education in our country as one of the foundational causes of the horrid situation we find ourselves in. RP’s plan is to end education at the federal level and return (rightly) to the states and parents, control of their own educational systems. Not sure how you can say that he has no plans whatever. Some of his ideas are in fact strong ones.

    “Ron Paul sees no evil in lawbreaking illegal aliens;”

    This is simply not true. Please look here… http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/

    Just a few bullet points are:

    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty – The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

    * Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.

    “he sees no evil in drug use;”

    Again, as libertarian, he sees no reason the federal government should be in the business of regulating drug use. This too should be left to the states to decide what should be legal or not within their own borders. He is simply not commenting about the inherent evil involved with mind altering drugs. Perhaps he should but that is another topic.

    “he sees no evil in radical Islam –”

    Here is where I have questions as well. I believe RP needs to be schooled on the dangers which islam (not “radical” islam) presents to America and the world. I firmly believe islam is as evil as evil gets. It is not “just” a religion, it is in fact a political system driven by satanic religious fever. Speaking personally, I have a hard time believing he is blind to the threat, but I know he underestimates it. I wish he had been invited to the Jewish Republican convention that Dan Greenfield might have put some tough questions to him. That said, some national defense bullet points:

    * Follow the Constitution by asking Congress to declare war before one is waged.

    * Only send our military into conflict with a clear mission and all the tools they need to complete the job – and then bring them home.

    * Ensure our veterans receive the care, benefits, and honors they have earned when they return.

    * Revitalize the military for the 21st century by eliminating waste in a trillion-dollar military budget.

    Found here: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/national-defense/

    And finally:

    “liberty lost is NEVER regained.”

    My brother, I absolutely can not accept this as it is accepting defeat where we stand, is it not? I must heartily disagree with John Adams here. From RP himself… “America became the greatest nation in human history because a dedicated band of Patriots believed their God-given rights were worth fighting for, even if it meant challenging the world’s most powerful nation in what many deemed a “hopeless” cause.” Found here: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/statement-of-faith/

    Learning here what you are about, I also can not believe you would accept defeat without putting up a remarkable fight for freedom. We live in what could amount to be the most remarkable time on earth aside from walking the same steps as Christ Himself. We may be that living generation which witnesses His final return in triumph. What will we be doing? Even so, come Lord Jesus. Amen.

  16. invar

    We recognize the same. It is disgraceful. Aside from our fervent prayer, which I will take as given, what are your short and long term political suggestions?

    Pray. And then offer yourself to God as a messenger to spread the need for national repentance. Then pray more.

    Those are the ONLY short and long term real political suggestions we have to afford any chance at maintaining what is left of our liberty. Electing someone to office is NOT going to solve our collapse into oblivion. This people must repent and recapture the morality and religion that can sustain liberty. Short of that, we’re doomed by both biblical proof and warnings from our Founders. Scripture is clear and so is history – into oblivion we will go after suffering the slaughter of a tyrant at our helm, and then by our outward enemies. I’m sorry if you do not like that prophecy, but then neither did Jeremiah’s or Daniel’s People like what they were warning was going to fall upon their nation’s either.

    No political candidate is going to save us. A leader will come from the people whom reflects their character, and not the other way around. Look around at our culture – and therein lies the root of the problem.

    Whom do you support in 2012 aside from RP as he was the target of your article?

    Since there are no Conservatives in this race, I support none of them and will again write in my candidate next year…. if we even have an election that isn’t already rigged in favor of Obama.

    I will certainly examine any reasonable suggestions.

    Palin had my attention. As did Cain for a time. Outside of those two – there are no reasonable suggestions willing to run.

    The currently available pool, to these eyes, strongly suggests RP as the only candidate moving any where near limiting the scope of fedzilla, which might give the cause of liberty a fighting chance at survival if not, at least some, success.

    He has done NOTHING in all his years in Congress to sell me on your suggestion that he can or will do ANYTHING to limit the scope of ANYTHING save the dismantling of the military to fit his pacifist ideology. His record sucks. He has achieved nothing but to point out what he says is wrong – and be a crushed lonely voice, opposing those things he knows do not stand a chance of being stopped. Then he votes for earmarks after railing against them. No sir, Ron Paul is just another Obama being vaunted by scores of supporters that want to tear it all down and redistribute everything.

    Without going into his entire platform which can be found on his website… You mention (for example) the system of public education in our country as one of the foundational causes of the horrid situation we find ourselves in. RP’s plan is to end education at the federal level and return (rightly) to the states and parents, control of their own educational systems. Not sure how you can say that he has no plans whatever. Some of his ideas are in fact strong ones.

    What he writes in campaign mode, what he says and what he does – his record, is one ONLY of pointing out what is wrong – and nothing to showcase any effort to actually work to reverse those things. He talks a big talk about “Ending” the Fed, yet has absolutely no viable or workable plan to actually get us from where we are to where he says we should be. None. How is he going to END federal education without up-ending the entire system that has grown dependent on D.C.??? How can he even get such a pie-in-the-sky notion passed by Congress???? How is he going to deal with the riots that will ensue if he acts by Executive fiat (which he will have to do to accomplish ANYTHING in Office)? No sir, his ideas are akin to Perot’s – rant about what is wrong with the “system” – cite the Constitution – but provide no workable plan that is even remotely realistic to get us from dependence back into liberty. He has none. I’ve been to his site, I’ve been lectured by his acolytes since 2007 – and nothing has changed my mind about him. Only solidified my opposition to his candidacy.

    Here is where I have questions as well. I believe RP needs to be schooled on the dangers which islam (not “radical” islam) presents to America and the world. I firmly believe islam is as evil as evil gets. It is not “just” a religion, it is in fact a political system driven by satanic religious fever. Speaking personally, I have a hard time believing he is blind to the threat, but I know he underestimates it. I wish he had been invited to the Jewish Republican convention that Dan Greenfield might have put some tough questions to him.

    Ron Paul has demonstrated consistent anti-Israel and anti-Jewish sentiments as far back as the 80’s. In addition, the company he keeps are well known radical anti-semites, including neo Nazi nuts at Stormfront, self-proclaimed anti-zionists like Alex Jones, whom he has refused to disavow. It was the correct course for the Jewish GOP convention to disallow him to appear. They know who and what RP is, and they did not have to provide him a forum in their midst to trash them and their support for Israel against Islamists. They did not need to listen to someone tell them that the Islamofascists are no threat to the Jewish state, and that Jews In Israel have turned Gaza into a concentration camp. No. I would not have invited RP to attend there if I were Jewish either.

    My brother, I absolutely can not accept this as it is accepting defeat where we stand, is it not?

    You cannot win a single battle if you refuse to acknowledge the reality of where you stand against the enemies arrayed against you. Have you never understood combat or the strategy of warfare? John Adams was inspired to write that quote sir. Do you know why? Because John Adams understood the scriptures better than most of us do today. He understood what happens to a people so blessed by God that turn their backs on Him. Read Deuteronomy 28 my friend. The whole chapter. That is what God’s warning is to a people HE establishes. And Our Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever. He does not change. Our Founders understood this, and their warnings to us are as valid as God’s warning to His people in scripture.

    “America became the greatest nation in human history because a dedicated band of Patriots believed their God-given rights were worth fighting for, even if it meant challenging the world’s most powerful nation in what many deemed a “hopeless” cause.”

    Sorry my brother. I refuse to ascribe our nation’s greatness on the works and wars of men. We are not great because we were willing to fight, we were great because our religious faith and heritage in the Lord was stalwart and necessary to fight for. Did you ever read Alexis DeToqueville? You should. Our national greatness was found in our religious heritage and faith – not in our deeds alone. Our deeds were motivated by our faith.

    But no longer today. We are not those people any longer. To deceive yourself on some hapless and patriotic hope based on nothing but emotion is exactly what the enemies within are counting on us continuing. II Chronicles 7:14. If we fail that – we have no hope of even survival. I’m not mincing words here, because you describe yourself as a brother in the Faith. Therefore, I’m not going to milquetoast my words to you. You need to hear the strong meat of what is about to happen to us if we fail to get our nation to repent.

    Our Founders understood that they suffered the ravages of a tyrant as punishment for their collective sins as a culture. The war for our liberty began in the pulpits and the Great Awakening is what forged us into a tool to establish our liberty.

    Learning here what you are about, I also can not believe you would accept defeat without putting up a remarkable fight for freedom.

    It is NOT defeat to understand exactly where you stand and what courses are absolutely necessary to win against your enemies. To pretend otherwise is folly of the highest order. God consistently delivered his own people into the hands of their enemies and utterly destroyed them from the earth for their transgressions and sins against His Laws and righteousness. Our Founders provided the same warnings – because THEY ARE TRUE. To disagree with what Adams wrote is to disagree with scripture and history – because that is where Adams was inspired to write it.

    If you do not want to face that harsh reality – then annihilation is in fact our lot. If we are going to rely on our own bombastic deluded belief that we can do anything without His aid – without repentance – we are seriously mistaken and doomed to the fate found in Deuteronomy 28.

    We live in what could amount to be the most remarkable time on earth aside from walking the same steps as Christ Himself. We may be that living generation which witnesses His final return in triumph. What will we be doing? Even so, come Lord Jesus. Amen.

    Read Matthew 24. Christ’s followers are in a time of trial, tribulation and death for their faith before He returns. Do not be deceived into thinking we live the good life and get to witness His Return without what Jesus said would befall us.

  17. T3

    I too thought Sarah Palin had a true heart.

    “Pray. And then offer yourself to God as a messenger to spread the need for national repentance. Then pray more.”

    I have, am and will continue to. I leave you with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and wishes for a blessed Christmas, Isaiah 9:6.

    Amen and see you online.

  18. 20% of republicans will vote for Obama this November. Google it. ALL of it. I’m sure that percentage has gotten higher and will continue until November.

  19. invar

    Put your crack pipe down Marvin.

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