Ron Paul – the non-interventionist, white-flag-waving appeasement anti-war surrender monkey

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Yes, I’m once again going to risk the threats of violence and death from the Ron Paul Mob Zombies. Let’s see how quick the U-boat Commanders in the RuPaul Sub Net fleet picks up this ping and sends their pack herds to try and torpedo the blog.

The CNN YouTube debate last night was a clear illustration of the fact the Clinton News Network is part and parcel an operative propaganda arm for the Democrat/Stalinist Left. It been learned that there were at least 4- countem FOUR – political plants that either asked questions or had videos shown asking questions, including the Homosexual General who has been a CNN guest in the past as well as Edwards, Obama and Hillary supporters who asked questions for the purpose of harming the candidates rather than finding out what they stand for. CNN made an obvious display of it’s willing propaganda to paint the GOP in the brushes of how the Left views the GOP, by framing the debate and choosing stupid, silly, irreverent agenda-based questions that are provinces of the Democrat Left. I do not recall that Gays in the Military, abortion, the death penalty or that the Confederate Flag were major issues concerning all Americans right now. Of course those issues are the heart and soul of the Democrat Left.

However, the only bright spot in that sickening display – was that all of the candidates handled the attempted sabotage very well – including Ron Paul. The silver lining being that the true colors of each candidate began to emerge as well. Only one of the candidates displayed any real sense of Conservatism – and NO – it was NOT Ron Paul. Most showcased moderate liberalism, polished political rhetoric, and the typical Establishment Blue Blood Urban Elitism that disgusted the majority of Conservatives and had them sitting home in November 2006.

Ron Paul simply showcased why he is a better running mate for Socialist Dennis Kuccinich than a GOP Candidate. While most of the Republican field is filled with moderate and liberal establishment politicians, Ron Paul’s rabid kook Libertarianism makes him a stand-out white-flag waving appeasement anti-war surrender monkey.

The booing of John McCain by Ron Paul Mob Zombies in the audience was one of the low points of disgust in last night’s debate.

But it is Ron Paul’s own words that continue to illustrate him the same Defeat At All Costs Surrender Monkey that Murtha, Pelosi and Reid are. Ron Paul insists we are losing in Iraq – when even the Liberal media has had to concede in the past few weeks that the surge is achieving huge success.

Here is an exchange from last night’s debate – the transcript directly from CNN.com:

“Already, part of their country has been taken back. In the south, they claim the surge has worked, but the surge really hasn’t worked. There’s less violence, but al-Sadr has essentially won in the south.”

Ron Paul more-or-less just granted a Jihadist, who has shot at and killed Americans and Brits, CREDIT for establishing a peace, as if the efforts of our troops had nothing to do with it.

It is SHAMELESS. It’s DISGUSTING, and it showcases exactly why Ron Paul is the kind of nitwit kook that needs to be ignored and shunned by this party and the electorate. He is as invested in defeat and retreat as the Democrat Leftists are.

While Duncan Hunter states that he will “never Apologize for America”, all Ron Paul is capable of is BLAMING America at each and every turn and time he gets in front of a microphone.

McCain called Paul’s position the same kind of “Isolationism that caused World War II” to which Ron Paul vigorously shook his head in the negative while smiling smugly, even while McCain was relaying the message from troops he had Thanksgiving with IN Iraq, to “Let us win”.

Ron Paul does not think we are winning, and will NOT let us win if he has anything to say about it. Ron Paul’s idea of winning, is running home and engaging in an INSANE version of Isolationist “non-Interventionism” that has America retreat from the world while sitting down to tea and trade talks with anyone and everyone – REGARDLESS of who they are or whether or not they are Al Qaeda nutjobs with intents to nuke NY. Ron Paul operates from the ridiculous and stupid premise that America’s enemies are merely reactionist to our presence in their nations when the simple fact of Jihadist Islam’s expansion into non-interventionist nations is well documented.

I’m not an isolationism, (shakes head) em, isolationist. I want to trade with people, talk with people, travel.

He wants to be a rock star. Well gee whiz! Even North Korea trades and talks with people in Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and every other America-hating regime on the planet. The difference between the Isolationism of North Korea and what Ron Paul wants for America is that Ron Paul will trade and chate with EVERYONE – regardless whether or not they have intentions to blow us off this rock.

But I don’t want to send troops overseas using force to tell them how to live.

Of course not. Ron Paul is content to let those people who, plan, plot and train to kill America and Americans to live their dreams and fantasies of bringing Islamic Prophecy to pass unhindered.

Ron Paul buys into the notion that if you leave a hornet’s nest alone near a playground when you know it is there – no harm will ever come to kids playing there.

We would object to it here and they’re going to object to us over there.

Ron Paul AGAIN thinking that the world thinks just like he does. Of COURSE the world objects to America being involved in the world! We prevent despotic madmen and movements from taking it over and subjugating neighbors and entire regions to brutal slavery and death – whether it be Communism or Jihadism.

Ron Paul would rather we simply leave them all alone. That kind of lunacy has no business being in the office of the CINC.

I would rather the GOP leave Ron Paul alone, to his Libertarian insanities where he better belongs.

Despite his non-answer of whether or not he will run 3rd Party – I think when he does not get the GOP nomination – his Mob Zombies will impress on him to run anyway as a 3rd party.

Which will then fulfill what I’ve been saying all along, Ron Paul is 2008’s Ross Perot.

42 Comments

Filed under Politics

42 responses to “Ron Paul – the non-interventionist, white-flag-waving appeasement anti-war surrender monkey

  1. miranda

    How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with phrases like “surrender monkey”, “Mob Zombies”, and “RuPaul”? Are you old enough to vote? Theocratic militant nativism does not a patriot make. sad. And no i’m not a “lefty”, you just sound like you’re compensating for lack of a viagra prescription.

  2. invar

    I don’t care whether or not anyone takes me seriously or not.

    I post what I’m inspired to write, and I call things what they are, with complete and deliberate irreverence when warranted.

    I voted for Reagan – to answer your question.

    Militant Nativism in a clear Christian context made up the Patriots that were our Founders.

  3. blurden

    we need to be scared of everything don’t we invar, leo strauss wrote your bible – a man who loved to watch old western television shows – its all cowboys and indians. grow up and use your brain.

  4. Rcjimm

    If you assume that all Ron Paul supporters are aligned with the views you mention, then why is it that Paul has more contributions from members of the military than other candidates?

  5. I’d suggest using more CAPITAL LETTERS so as to DRIVE HOME YOUR POINTS!

    u go man

  6. drew phillips

    It is best to have a rational point of view without an irrational tone, but I understand because anger is one of the first stages of denial. Ron Paul tells the unvarnished truth and you are angry because you are in denial.
    You mentioned North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and Cuba as American-hating countries, but all were ambivilant towards us until we overthrew their governments, invaded or grossly intervened in their affairs — kind of proves Ron Paul’s point, don’t you think?

  7. invar

    If you assume that all Ron Paul supporters are aligned with the views you mention, then why is it that Paul has more contributions from members of the military than other candidates?

    Cognitive dissonance?

    How many so-called ex-military generals and officers are part of the anti-war platform of the movOn.org Democrat Party?

    Answer: Plenty.

    Heck, we saw a former Brigadier general last night who shouted out loud his open homosexuality whom we discover today is a Hillary Supporter.

    I don’t know many active .mil folks who buy into the Ron Paul prescription of cut and run from a fight to secure peace.

  8. invar

    It is best to have a rational point of view without an irrational tone…

    You mean like the threats I get from Ron Paul zombies?

    THAT kind of ‘rational point of view?’

    I think that instead of psycho-analyzing me, you might want to investigate projection on your part, when you people are in complete Denial about this war Jihadist Islam is waging for world conquest.

    You can try to justify your Blame America First ideology to your heart’s content – It don’t sell here.

    Like some other upstanding Americans, I’m never going to go and blame America.

  9. Desert Rat

    There are approximately 100,000,000 born again Christians in this country that pray night and day for Armageddon in hopes of forcing the hand of God for Jesus’ return. They all falsely believe that they will be raptured up to heaven leaving all the heathens and Jesus non-believers to fates far worse than death. It is this very sick mentality and the constant beating of war drums that scare me half to death. The scariest part of all is watching these religious fanatics, hands waving in air while in a voodoo like trance while Benny Hinn (or of his ilk) pulls their strings. These very sick people are gleeful at the mere prospect of the horrible distruction of 90% of the world’s population. These types of thoughts are not only fantasy, but pure evil. Be careful what you wish for spouting Romans 13:3, you just may get it. Lest you forget that your savior, Jesus , was a humble man of peace.

  10. Rcjimm

    The FEC numbers are from active military. I think you dishonor them if you call them “cut and run”. Perhaps their perspective on what is happening is more informed than yours.

  11. drew phillips

    You will never blame America. Not even when we created a fake news story that prompted the Spanish-American war, stole the area of Panama from Columbia to develop the Panama Canal, or installed Allende in Chile after the CIA assassinated their elected president, or put the Shah in power in Iran, or when we sold chemical gas to Saddam Hussein in the 1980’s (what did you think he was going to do with it?), etc., etc? It is no wonder that we have left a few peoples and countries upset with us.

  12. Desert Rat

    Those who are the biggest supporters of never ending wars are also the biggest cowards. If I were king, all those who are pro war would be immediately shipped off to combat zones along with their entire family and friends (sex and age would make no difference). They would then replace all of the troops who pray every night and day that they can come home to their loved ones.

  13. Michael Fernwood

    I thought Hitler and the Euro Surrender monkies like Chamberlin might have started World War II, not old fashion American Isolationism.

    For that matter, John McCain, or you, explain how isolationism starts a war?

  14. Topcat

    I am always amazed that people tend to place opposition to a policy as not supporting our troops and being unpatriotic. Ron Paul is a realist with respect as to why the US is losing creditability worldwide. I would hope that any foreign nation attempting to occupy the US would find themselves being resisted on every corner as we are finding resistance to our occupation of Iraq. It was the Iraqi peoples responsibility to change their government if they so desired. Our troops are political pawns in a world of insanity.

  15. invar

    There are approximately 100,000,000 born again Christians in this country that pray night and day for Armageddon in hopes of forcing the hand of God for Jesus’ return.

    Praying for God to bring an end to this age and strapping bombs to yourself and children to actually go about bringing an end to the world are two completely different things.

    Amazing you people cannot see the difference, prayers of God to return – versus bombs and plans to bomb innocents in order to bring the Mahdi’s return.

    It is this very sick mentality and the constant beating of war drums that scare me half to death.

    I think it’s instructive that Christians scare you to death – but Jihadists do not.

    Jesus , was a humble man of peace.

    Boy, are you people in for a surprise – along with 200 million marching through the valley of Hinnom.

    Perhaps their perspective on what is happening is more informed than yours.

    My nephew was in the Northern Baghdad suburbs and was wounded there – my next door neighbor has done three tours with his guard unit.

    I’ll take their word over yours thank you very much.

    You will never blame America. Not even when we (insert why America is evil and disliked here)…

    No, I will not. But it is clear that you might be happier someplace else – where the threat from Christians and “neocons” does not keep you up at night in fear and terror.

    If I were king, all those who are pro war would be immediately shipped off to combat zones along with their entire family and friends (sex and age would make no difference). They would then replace all of the troops who pray every night and day that they can come home to their loved ones.

    And that is exactly why you nutjob Mob Zombies are no different than Brownshirts – not to mention that you demonstrate exactly what I’ve been saying all along – you want a King/messiah – since you project yourselves the kind of wannabe tyrants that you would hope Ron Paul becomes in the aid of your cause of ‘Revolution”.

    It’s why your mob is so damn dangerous. Even moreso than anything coming from the Clintonistas.

    For that matter, John McCain, or you, explain how isolationism starts a war?

    Read some Churchill.

    Get a clue.

    When you give a madman unimpeded room to do what he promises he is going to do as Europe did – you end up being conquered.

    So sad so many of you are ignorant of history.

  16. invar

    I would hope that any foreign nation attempting to occupy the US would find themselves being resisted on every corner as we are finding resistance to our occupation of Iraq.

    How clueless are you people?

    The Iraqi people are not blowing up our troops – INSURGENTS WAGING JIHAD ARE.

    Iranians, Syrians, Yemense, Saudi Arabians, Egyptians, Algerians, Sudanese and a litany of FOREIGN insurgents waging war on American troops IN Iraq.

    If we were invaded, if the Canadians and Mexicans came in our nation to wage war on UN troops you would have a better metaphor of what is going on there.

    It was the Iraqi peoples responsibility to change their government if they so desired.

    Oh, well willickers! I suppose we should have let the Vichy French and the Japanese do the same 60 years ago – yes???

    Our troops are political pawns in a world of insanity.

    Well by all means, let’s run home and allow the world to go it’s own way of insanity – and we’ll wait – until it comes nuking down our doors. Yes???

  17. jmklein

    Its just like Vietnam. We won every single open battle but could not establish a legitimate government. It’s pointless to look at the statistics for the engagements, they’re very one sided. At the same time, however, we should look to evidence that our occupation is moving Iraq towards a democratic, secular, legitimate, and self sustaining government.

    And the sad fact is, our occupation is doing nothing to promote that goal. And that is why we will continue to win every single battle yet get ourselves nowhere closer to winning the war.

  18. invar

    Its just like Vietnam. We won every single open battle but could not establish a legitimate government.

    No, wrong.

    We won every engagement, but lost the political will to win AT HOME and we drew down our forces continually to appease the Anti-war Left until we retreated altogether and MILLIONS were slaughtered by the Khmer Rouge after we left.

    And the sad fact is, our occupation is doing nothing to promote that goal.

    You are not paying attention to the news of late apparently.

  19. Rcjimm

    Perhaps their perspective on what is happening is more informed than yours.

    I’ll take their word over yours thank you very much.

    ****

    Please note these are active duty military you are arguing with, not me. Sorry your nephew was wounded but he does not speak for all military folks.

    Did you intentionally omit what was inconvenient (active military support Ron Paul over other candidates) or were you just in a hurry? I don’t think active military personnel believe that leaving Iraq is “cut and run” but leaving a war that was never declared as part of an activity (nation building) that we shouldn’t be involved in. Paul has a good video of George Bush from 2000 criticizing Clinton for the same activities that he now has us involved in.

    Note that Paul did vote for the action in Afghanistan so saying he is all “cut and run” is dishonest.

  20. BENNY

    With all due respect to Sen. McCain’s service, he was doing nothing but pandering by continually bringing up his visit to Iraq.

    I wish Ron Paul would have asked him how much it cost the American taxpayers for his little photo op, but he is too much of a gentleman for that.

    McCain on the other hand showed himself to have no knowledge of history and no class by comparing Dr. Paul’s principled opposition to the Iraq war to appeasement in WWII.

    As Dr. Paul said after the debate McCain is desperately trying to hang on to the war issue to save his rapidly disintegrating career, it is all he has left after the amnesty debacle.

    By the way for someone who is so critical of Ron Paul supporters(some of whom can be very obnoxious) you sure are quick to sling mud yourself.

  21. You will really have to do much better to get yourself a death threat. As it is, you’re hardly worth a stray chortle or two,

  22. Darren D.

    I am trying to understand the “white flag” theory.

    “Mission Accomplished” was 4 years ago. All we are doing now is policing streets and hoping for a political solution.

    We went to get rid of the WMD’s and get rid of Saddam Hussein. Both objectives have been completed. Our troops did their job.

    Is their now a new objective that I don’t know of?

    There must be in order to surrender to something. Who is Dr. Paul trying to surrender to?

    Please don’t say Al Queda. Dr. Paul supported going after them in Afghanistan.

    Let Iraq figure out there own government. We obviously can’t agree on one here.

  23. Did you know that in 1976, Ron Paul was one of only for congressional republicans to publically endorse Ronald Reagan?

  24. SF_guy(RET)

    I agree with the idea of “islamofascism” however, what few realize, or care to admit, is that the culture demands ruling with an “iron fist”, and the U.S. military can not sustain the expenditures necessary to provide it (we are borrowing to finance this debacle), and continued Western presence in the region destabilizes it.
    Here is a thought. If the Shia north are sending in fighters to add to the mess, maybe they want something there. Do these foreigners (see Iranians), have something we want? Hey, Ahmadinejad, if we pull out of Iraq will you cease any nuclear weapons intentions and allow inspectors unfettered, immediate access to any and all facilities?

  25. Mike Robinson

    Leave the Middle East to the residents of the Middle East. The reason the US is there is oil, the reason Islamist terrorists fight the US is because we are on their land. So, the reason for the conflict is oil. The financing of terrorists comes from oil. So, let’s stop buying oil from the Middle East. Problem solved. But we can’t, you say? Sure we can: http://www.aneki.com/oil.html … oops, doesn’t look so good. Here’s the negative result of not buying Middle East oil: Saudi Arabia and others make customers buy oil in US dollars. If we stop buying Middle East oil, then they will stop this requirement. Since our dollar is not backed by gold or silver, the only thing that makes it valuable is that other countries are forced to buy oil with it. It is this fact that still gives the US dollar value – and take that away and counties around the world will stop using the dollar as their reserve money. This means the value of the dollar will plumet to zero. So, it would be a good idea to tie our dollar to something other than oil. How about gold or silver? That would be prudent. Then we can stop buying Middle East oil and buy it from anyone and everyone else. Then we can put energy alternatives on the front burner. This is America, we can get ‘er done. It’s called hard work and that is surely not something an American is afraid of.

  26. matt g

    “I would hope that any foreign nation attempting to occupy the US would find themselves being resisted on every corner as we are finding resistance to our occupation of Iraq.

    How clueless are you people?

    The Iraqi people are not blowing up our troops – INSURGENTS WAGING JIHAD ARE.

    Iranians, Syrians, Yemense, Saudi Arabians, Egyptians, Algerians, Sudanese and a litany of FOREIGN insurgents waging war on American troops IN Iraq.

    If we were invaded, if the Canadians and Mexicans came in our nation to wage war on UN troops you would have a better metaphor of what is going on there.

    Yeah all those UN troops in Iraq? what are you talking about. So are you suggesting all islamic terrorist come from all other middle eastern countries. But not Iraq. Its the whole middle east that hates our foreign policy.

  27. chris

    You dislike Paul, we get it. Say what you will, a huge number of spoken, with their wallets, and volunteering efforts, in a resounding “Yes” to Ron Paul’s calls for “revolution”.

    He’s right, of course, about needing to end our country’s self declared role of “World Cop” for the last 50+ years. What has it gotten us? Vietnam was a gross failure that cost tens of thousands of lives, and the cold war is back on again, and this time, includes China.

    And McCain…he’s your real kook, not Paul. Desperate, clinging to a fading chance at being…a runner up. Is that a tumor growing out the side of his face, or his clenching jaw every time he’s challenged on his opinion? He’s almost as undesirable as Guiliani, but not quite – at least he doesn’t lisp, and doesn’t flip/flop favorite baseball teams during post season.

  28. Hey there,

    I’m not a “RP nut” and I’m not attacking you, just so you know.

    I’m taking precious time away from my end-of-semester papers to write this short note to you.

    You have posted one of my favorite Bible verses at the top of your page.

    You make yourself look biblical and theonomic. Good. I’m all for that.

    There are certainly things that solid Christians can bicker with Ron Paul about. Homosexuality, for instance. He takes a conventionally mainstream Xian stand on it.

    And please do so if you want. It’s a viable point.

    But the moment you start distorting his position, you’ve lied. And you’ve lied about one of the most solid, Christian men that’s ever been in Washington, D.C.

    No Che Guevara lover would ever love RP. RP is the collectivist’s worst nightmare. He want a 0% collectivized state. He’s of the Austrian school of economics. 100% individualized economy. This accusation makes no sense. Did you even read that discussion on the forum? Everyone said it was ridiculous, and even the guy who made the image said he was turning the famous picture of that “land-reforming, war-mongering socialist pig” on its head!

    No pacifist would ever love RP. RP hates _unconstitutional_ war. _Illegal_ war. _Immoral_ war. But he in no way has ever taken a pacifist approach to anything. His stance is 100% biblical and is founded on Christian just war theory as first discussed by Augustine.

    No real lefty would ever love RP. They might support him because all the Dems want us in Iraq till 2013, but they’ll never be on board with him on anything else. He wants to end all compulsory laws regarding social programs. He wants to end the nanny state. End the paternalistic state. End the womb to tomb security (well, these days the womb ain’t such a safe place, but you get the point). End the IRS. No federal income tax. End federal education. End all unconstitutional intrusions into life. Deregulate commerce completely, but prosecute fraud. End everything not set out in Article I Section 8 (the list of things Congress is allowed to do).

    Now, on foreign policy…these Muslims have been wanting to kill us for about as long as we’ve decided to run their lives. It all started in the 40s. We backed the United Nation is 1947 to steal Christian and Palestinian land in order to give it to the Zionist movement. Before that, the USA did not run into any problems with Muslims save the Barbary pirates. (And obviously, the problems with the Barbary pirates had nothing to do with religious hatred. They were pirates.)

    But after Israel, we decided to overthrow Iran.

    Then we decided to back various regimes throughout the years all over the Middle East to accomplish our own goals.

    Clinton did it. Bush has done it. Even Reagan did it a little. And when the Presidents weren’t doing it, the CIA was doing it.

    No wonder they hate us. They think we’re atheists.

    Sigh.

    Why does being Constitutional make one an idiot? They all have to swear to uphold it. One man does. And he’s an idiot.

    Please notice that I did not use any foul language or exaggerated “tones” in this note. I’d like to see you at least criticize RP where it’s valid.

  29. invar

    There must be in order to surrender to something. Who is Dr. Paul trying to surrender to?

    The entirety of Jihadist Islam – whether it be Wahhabist, Sunni or Shia – in all the various flavors and sects – except of course to pay lip service to warring on Al Qaeda.

    Since Dr. Paul agrees with Bin Laden’s justifications for the 9-11 attacks, it hardly seems logical to war on something you have publicly said is our fault for causing.

    Please don’t say Al Queda. Dr. Paul supported going after them in Afghanistan.

    Hey Clueless – Al Qaeda is IN IRAQ – and A’STAN, and just about every other single Middle East country in the world. What the hell do you think Zarqawi was?

    Do these foreigners (see Iranians), have something we want? Hey, Ahmadinejad, if we pull out of Iraq will you cease any nuclear weapons intentions and allow inspectors unfettered, immediate access to any and all facilities?

    He already said no. Don’t people read the news, or do you just simply hang on every word of Ron Paul as if the guy was Divine?

    You really need to spend more time reading what our enemies are saying instead of bloviating politicians trying to capitalize on making war policy, or deconstructing war policy.

    Ahmadinejad has already stated the nukes are for use in the ‘divine mission’ to rid the world of the Great Satan in order to usher in the 12th Imam.

    He wants Iraq, because according to the Quran, the Armies of the Mahdi conquer the world FROM Babylon.

    Get the picture yet hoss? America being IN Iraq – puts a stopper in the fulfillment of their Satanic prophecies to start Armageddon.

    Leave the Middle East to the residents of the Middle East.

    Sounds all fine and good until the nukes start to fly and it costs $3 Grand to fill up your tank.

    So, it would be a good idea to tie our dollar to something other than oil. How about gold or silver? That would be prudent.

    Got any pics of the gold that’s supposed to be in Fort Knox? Should we tie the new currency to the gold in Europe – or the gold in Arabia since we clearly have little to none?

    Its the whole middle east that hates our foreign policy.

    Almost got it right. It’s the whole of Jihadist Islam that hates the fact we exist and are sitting in the Superpower spot they think was stolen from them.

    The other aspect of the hatred of course is that Islam means “Submission” and it is very clear that American’s do not and will not be submitting to Sharia law.

    Soooo, even if we ran home tomorrow – the Jihad will continue – unabated and unapposed until they achieve the global Caliphate ALL SECTS of Islamic estacheology agrees will take place at the end of the age.

    Christians might better know this coming power better when referenced as The Beast, or – the King of the South – not entirely sure yet which entity a Global Caliphate will fall into.

  30. invar

    No Che Guevara lover would ever love RP.

    So the Anti-war nuts waving Ron Paul signs while wearing Che T-shirts were just making a fashion statement?

    The Guy who originally posted the idea to make Ron Paul/Che T-shirts was only kidding?

    I don’t even think you people have a clue to what kind of nutjobs are answering your call for “revolution”. The nuts in this country hear “revolution” and “Get our troops out of the world” and they think it’s a good time to ride your populist bandwagon to further their own personal agendas for upheaval – whether it be Anarchists, Code Pinkos or Legalize the DopeHead Libertarians.

    Ron Paul people may be thinking this so-called “Revolution” will restore us back to what he is ranting about in debates – but what you will end up with is a revolution that has more in common with the French Revolution than than our War of Independence.

    Blood will flow – from EVERYWHERE. I’ve already had threats of violence and death from your fellow supporters, for nothing more than exercising free political speech here – of which some have sought to silence.

    No pacifist would ever love RP.

    I know PLENTY – who support him on his anti-war postion ALONE, because they are admitted Pacifists due their religion or their conscience.

    No real lefty would ever love RP.

    They love him for his Anti-war position, because as the MoveOn.org and Democrat Underground idiots have stated – getting a General Election of Hillary/Clarke versus Ron Paul gives Hillary teh win hands down because it takes the war issue off her debate table. The one huge issue she is vulnerable on inside her own party.

    Now, on foreign policy…these Muslims have been wanting to kill us for about as long as we’ve decided to run their lives. It all started in the 40s.

    Your understanding of history and Islam itself is a bit…lacking. It goes back centuries – not just since the 40’s.

    You might want to do a study on Grand Mufti Huesseini of Jersusalem in the 1920’s, and the conflict that began between Muslims and Jews long before a state of Israel was ever a twinkle in anyone’s eye.

    It’s an interesting eye opener if you really want to see the roots of what is taking shape today.

    And it has NOTHING at all to do with America.

    We’re just a convenient excuse for them to forge together iron and clay.

    obviously, the problems with the Barbary pirates had nothing to do with religious hatred. They were pirates

    Jefferson saw Mohammedans as a serious geopolitical threat, and contrary to your limited understanding of that history – Jefferson completely learned that the Mohammedans’ were acting out of religious hatred.

    To wit: “the Ambassador from Tripoli, Adams and Jefferson asked, on what grounds these outrageous acts of unbridled savagery could be justified to which the reply was: ‘The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the laws of the prophet, that it was written in their koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their [islams] authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners….” – AMERICAN SPHINX The Character of Thomas Jefferson by Joseph J. Ellis

    This event occured between 1784-1789 while Jefferson was ambassador to France and Adams (2nd president) was ambassador to England.

    No wonder they hate us. They think we’re atheists.

    No…they hate us because we are KUFFAR -we are wealthy kuffar, we are an obstacle to their aims and we will not submit – and they know it.

  31. invar

    Note that Paul did vote for the action in Afghanistan so saying he is all “cut and run” is dishonest.

    Gee, what part of his pledge to “Close all intruding military bases in the world and bring home ALL American troops overseas” is not ‘cutting and running’ from the world?

    Sure sounds like it to me. I guess you can cover dog poop in chocolate sauce and call it a popsicle, but it’s still poop on a stick to me. And so is calling his platform ‘Cut and Run’.

  32. I’m a vet. The military is trained to fight wars, not to nation build and police other countries. The war was over years ago, their job is done and it’s time for them to come home. The only people who want to stay are those who are looking for profits in nation building. In the past, they would be known as war profiteers. Case closed.

  33. I won’t get involved in an extended debate here on the friggin’ internet, but thanks for replying.

    When I meant “love,” I meant actually agree with on an overall basis–agree with so much that you “love” him. I’m very much aware than some pacifists have taken a liking to Paul. But that’s guilt by association. It’s also the genetic fallacy. Paul’s position has nothing to do with pacifism, as I think you know, so criticizing him because some of his supporters are pacifists does not follow. This works all the way around.

    At the end of the day, Paul is for a federal government without hundreds of its current departments, without any intervention in the economy, without the majority of federal our taxes, without _all_ entitlement programs, without all compulsory “social programs,” without abortion, and without all paternalist statism. Why would any lefty like that? They don’t. They only like his stance on the war.

    (A side note: I still think you’re confused about the Guevara shirts. Yes, he was joking. Go back and read the forum. If RP supporters err on this subject, they err on the side of anti-socialism, because RP believes in an absolutely uncontrolled (by the state) market, an absolutely uncontrolled (by the state) economic system–a government that doesn’t devote one cent or one second to “economic planning.” His hero is Ludwig von Mises for heaven’s sakes. These criticisms don’t work.)

    Paul wants us out of Afghanistan because we blew it. You’re distorting his position here so much that I almost don’t know where to start.

    1) He asked Congress for a letter of marque and reprisal (just like Jefferson did with the Barbary pirates). This is the _only_ constitutional way to attack AQ–an enemy that is not a national, sovereign entity. Congress laughed at him.

    2) So he voted for the attack anyway. He knew it had to be done, so he made a compromise: no letter of marque and reprisal, so be it. We still had to go after AQ.

    3) Then we completely blew it. We let AQ get away. We’re letting (as we speak) the Taliban and their followers to regain the country. Why? Because we decided we should be engaging in _nation building_ rather than exacting justice.

    That’s the whole issue. RP wants us out of Afghanistan because we’re being Clintonian, liberal nation builders. We gave up on OBL and AQ because, all of the sudden, we had to go find big guns that we didn’t want Hussein, the liberal secularist, to have–and of course, we can’t find them.

    You made my point about the 40s. It had nothing to do with us…_until_ we started supporting illegal governments like Israel and subsidizing them with tax payer dollars to accomplish our ends and overthrowing their governments to our benefit.

    As for the 20s, that’s when the Zionist movement started, so it would make sense for there to be problems then. Zionists did to Palestine what illegal Mexicans are doing to us (in a way). They didn’t like it.

    Islam was a laughable religion until the mid 20th century. It was dwindling. Liberal. Small. The old empires were gone. Then we had to give them all a common enemy.

    (Another side note: I can admit that the pirates’ being Muslims was a factor. I was wrong on this.)

  34. Oops, there’s a typo up there. “Their” in the fourth to last paragraph lacks an antecedent. That’s supposed to mean middle easterners in general (like Iran, &c.).

  35. invar

    At the end of the day, Paul is for a federal government without hundreds of its current departments

    And how does he plan to kill all those departments and make jobless probably 1/4 of the government employee workforce without the permission of Congress?

    Executive orders?

    And if he does use E.O.’s, is he prepared for the civil war that will undoubtedly erupt with the furloughed and the Government Employees Unions?

    without the majority of federal our taxes, without _all_ entitlement programs

    As I posted the link earlier – Paul’s tax elimination plan is bogus: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/four_pinocchios_for_ron_paul.html

    without all compulsory “social programs,” without abortion

    How does he plan to do all of that when SCOTUS and the lobbying groups have cemented in the minds of most Americans that those are inalienable RIGHTS??? How much rioting and bloodshed is he willing to endure?

    Why would any lefty like that? They don’t. They only like his stance on the war.

    Exactly what I’ve been saying. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    A side note: I still think you’re confused about the Guevara shirts.

    As one meatworld Paulie put it to me – “Che was all about ‘revolution’ and so is Ron Paul. He’s an icon for the need to rebel against tyranny.”

    Answer it any for you why I sometimes refer to your fellow Mob as “Revolutionistas”?

    Paul wants us out of Afghanistan because we blew it.

    Yeah, I can imagine what it would have been like for Paul to be president in the 40’s with an idiotic position such as that. To pull out and run home after our failure in the Phillipines and after our losses at Normandy. I can hear him now: “We must retreat because we blew the Pacific war and had our asses handed to us at Normandy because of bad war strategy – so we must bring all U.S. forces home.”

    Just another reason why Paul is unfit for CINC.

    He asked Congress for a letter of marque and reprisal (just like Jefferson did with the Barbary pirates). This is the _only_ constitutional way to attack AQ–an enemy that is not a national, sovereign entity. Congress laughed at him.

    Nothing so quaint as an ancient 17th century practice in a nuclear age of Space travel, instant communications and homicide bombers.

    Congress rightfully laughed their asses off at him because Congress made such a practice (assassination) ILLEGAL.

    Congress was not about to give authority to a 17th century practice that the modern descendent of was declared illegal.

    We still had to go after AQ.

    AQ was and is in just about every single M.E. nation and kingdom in the world.

    Then we completely blew it. We let AQ get away. We’re letting (as we speak) the Taliban and their followers to regain the country. Why? Because we decided we should be engaging in _nation building_ rather than exacting justice.

    The world and the Left in the world will not tolerate America using nukes to exact any kind of Justice.

    I would prefered to have nuked the whole lot of them from orbit – just to be sure, but America has no guts or resolve to be more brutal than our enemies who are at war with us – and America will not suffer in this age any innocents to die – even if the enemy is using them as shields.

    So there is and was no other option left to us, except to do what Reagan did in 83, and Clinton did all throughout the 90’s starting with Somalia and ending in the Port of Arden – and leave the Jihadists alone and run home until they kill ANOTHER 3,000 people; or 300,000 or 3 million.

    By then perhaps – we will be lucky enough to have a global Islamic Caliphate to target – since we seem only mentally capable of waging 19th century Wars.

    We gave up on OBL and AQ because, all of the sudden, we had to go find big guns that we didn’t want Hussein, the liberal secularist, to have–and of course, we can’t find them.

    Yeah right… that’s why Hussein declared Jihad on America – he was a Secularist.

    By the by – when Turkey closes all overfly rights, and Pakistan falls to the Taliban and Iran shuts the Straights – how do you think we would have been able to get supplies to troops in A’stan if we had no base of operation in Iraq?? Someone wargamed what a war on AQ would eventually lead to – and in the scenarios I have read Sadaam would be aiding the Taliban with the same kind of insurgency Iran is sending to Iraq today. A democratic state friendly to the US in the middle of the nest was the only real option we had to put a cork in the spread of Militant Islam – unless we wanted to nuke the region to ruin and come home.

    Then there’s the free flow of oil at market prices – and that too posed a problem if we just nuked the site from orbit.

    As for the 20s, that’s when the Zionist movement started

    I will NOT put up with Stormfront neo-nazi anti-semetic crap here (or wherever you got that tripe from) – so stop while you are ahead. Your history of Jews and Arabs in the area before the 1920’s and what prompted Al Husseini and the Muslim Brotherhood to slaughter is pure ignorance on a grand scale and not even in the same universe of comparison to the Mexican Insurgency we have going on.

    Islam was a laughable religion until the mid 20th century. It was dwindling.

    Only because the Ottoman empire was destroyed in WWI and the Muslim’s were humiliated and thought their God was punishing them for disobedience. An even more militant version of Islam was born out of that humiliation – because they began to think they had to be more brutal to infidels than the Turks were.

    Then we had to give them all a common enemy.

    If Israel never existed, the common enemy would STILL be America.

    Perhaps you might ask why Muslims refer to America as The Great Satan – and Israel as the ‘little Satan’.

    We have been and will remain the number ONE enemy of Muslims – because we are Kuffar, and we are mighty.

    (Another side note: I can admit that the pirates’ being Muslims was a factor. I was wrong on this.)

    History is like an onion. You have to dig though layers to get the better picture, and even then, it’s mostly a matter of perspective.

    I just prefer our perspective than that of others.

  36. Mike

    “We prevent despotic madmen and movements from taking it over and subjugating neighbors and entire regions to brutal slavery and death – whether it be Communism or Jihadism.”

    As others have pointed out: Yet we support them, when it’s in our government’s interest.

  37. invar

    Yet we support them, when it’s in our government’s interest.

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

  38. Wow. Just yell and scream and say I’m wrong.

    Okie dokie.

    I wonder why Christians were thriving under Saddam? Why they had so many big churches? Why they were allowed to pretty much own completely the liquor industry? And why there was such a wave of Christian persecution after we invaded? He protected them. To piss off the conservative Muslims.

    It’s funny that I pull out some info that can be found in any encyclopedia, and you call me anti-semitic. I cited a date for a “land reform” movement. And that makes me a “neo-nazi.” (!!) Okie dokie. You sound like the nazi.

    It’s unreal that you believe that we can overthrow their governments; take over their industries; subsidize _hated_ leaders with money, supplies, and customs; and control our own puppet governments for decades and not make anyone hate us for that.

    Yep. They hate my neighbor because of his Metallica t-shirt. And his Honda Civic. And his desk job.

    Not because his country took over his, deposed his leader, took over his industries, and indirectly influences their customs.

    Funny that the head of the CIA Bin Laden unit for years and years is in complete agreement with this assessment of our foreign policy.

    But wait! An internet blogger with a flying eagle in his logo disagrees!

    http://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Hubris-West-Losing-Terror/dp/1574888625/ref=pd_sim_b_img_2

    Thought you might like this too:
    “The Congress shall have Power To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water.” (I.VIII)

    Yep. Looks illegal to me.

    So when someone attacks you who isn’t affiliated with a nation, there’s no legal way to do it? Congress just has to abdicate its responsibilities, throw its hands up in the air, and scream to the President: “Save us!”

    Great. Yeah. Because that’s what the Constitution says.

    Oh, wait. You said it was written in the seventeenth century.

    1687? Hmm.

    Because I thought it was 1787.

    Here’s the oath of office: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic…”

    Of course, there’s the added clause: “EXCEPT when parts of it can be linked to the seventeenth century. Then the oath is null and void and you can give up all your responsibilities and let the President take control.”

    Have fun taking over the world from your basement.

  39. Okay, one more thing:

    WTF is this crap?

    “Yeah, I can imagine what it would have been like for Paul to be president in the 40’s with an idiotic position such as that. To pull out and run home after our failure in the Phillipines and after our losses at Normandy. I can hear him now: “We must retreat because we blew the Pacific war and had our asses handed to us at Normandy because of bad war strategy – so we must bring all U.S. forces home.”

    Germany -> declared war on us.
    Iraw -> didn’t.

    U.S. -> declared war on Germany.
    U.S. -> did not declare war on Iraq.

    Germany -> a huge, fascist state taking over the world, allied with another huge, fascist state that attacked us.
    Iraq -> a tiny, 3rd world country with barely any army, navy, or air force run by a secular dictator.

    Germany -> posed an immediate threat.
    Iraq -> posed no threat.

    If we were really worried about terrorists, why didn’t we go to war with Saudi Arabia?

    Oh right. They’re our _ally_…aha.

    The country where all but one of the hijackers came from. The most radical of all Muslim nations. Harboring and funding terrorists for decades.

    And Iraq was a bigger threat.

    Right.

  40. invar

    Wow. Just yell and scream and say I’m wrong.

    Okie Dokie.

    You are free and welcome to join the rest of the third world and call for my head and other “jews”(Neocons) and think this country is crap and caused all the woe and misery in it.

    You are in the majority opinion, along with all of the world’s Communists, Socialists, Despots and Jihadists.

    What great bedfellows all of you make. All denouncing and decrying America as the Great Satan, The Whore of Revelation and whatever other slight you people can drum up together.

    However, I prefer to think of us otherwise.

    It’s illustrative to see how much hatred your mob has for other American Conservatives that do not agree 100% with your views or support your messiah Ron Paul’s idiotic notions of foreign policy.

    You people are all bloodthirsty brownshirts – eager to shred the flesh of fellow countrymen while demanding we blame ourselves for creating the world’s madmen, but suggest we sit down, chat and trade with those same madmen instead.

    It’s plain stupid appeasement, but you’ll dress it up in some silly notion of Constitutional patriotism and pat yourselves on the back, romanticizing yourselves as minutemen for another revolution.

    Far easier to threaten American Christians with death than to draw a nasty cartoon of Mohammed or to name a Teddy bear after him. Far easier to stir up strife for ‘revolution’ against your American neighbors that do not support your candidate than to push for the effort to revolutionize the Arab world so we do not have to experience a nuclear 9-11.

    There is more than the need to scream how wrong you mob zombies are, there is the dire necessity to alert those with ears to hear, what intolerant dangerous tyrants you are.

    The threats of violence and death from Ron Paul Mob Zombies being the proof in the pudding.

  41. Scott

    Sweet, I don’t have to tell you that I look like a huge moron right about now…. everyone said I was years ago!

    I do have a question for you though.

    Why am I still so delusional? Isn’t Ron Paul the promised Deliverer??

  42. That’s right, I’m a freaking moron. Can’t help it that I’m a CHUMP!

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